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21 October 2011 @ 03:48 pm
We need to work out the actual goal for this comm, and I'm in charge? so I'll throw my ideas out there.

I don't think any of the debunking comms can, by their nature, be safe spaces for anyone. This is a place for examining privilege, so hurtful privileged things will be said, so it can not be safe for the oppressed. It is also a place to call out privilege, so when hurtful things have been said, it is not a "safe" space for those who said something hurtful, as people have no obligation to be nice or polite when they point that shit out.

This should be a place where you don't say privileged shit unless you are willing to take the heat that comes down on you for it. But also where oppressed people have to expect to encounter hurtful shit, and shouldn't engage with the comm unless they are feeling up to it. Those of us on the oppressed axis here should maybe only deal with this place when we feel like encountering and challenging privileged bullshit, even if the only way we are up to challenging it is to say k but u rong doe and leaving the privileged to figure out how they're wrong.

But it absolutely can not act as safer space for those without male privilege if we are going to honestly explore said privilege. Basically, this comm is going to involve people's feelings getting hurt, because that's what happens when we're dealing with privilege. Either way, I am not going to ban people for ether saying assish things or for not calling things out according to someone else's standards.

I see no obligation for people who are pointing out privilege to explain any more than they feel like, the obligation is on the offender to figure out how they showed their ass this time.

Thoughts?

I'm going to try to make a post on the actual original content of the one that started the clusterfuck, next.
 
 
19 October 2011 @ 04:18 pm
It looks like the other mods and maintainers or whatever have gone missing? And I am heavily distracted by life bullshit, so am only lightly moderating a damn thing. I'm giving what thought I can spare to the situation that just went down and figuring out if there is policy or something for how much rape apologism I am supposed to just glare at before I start banning people. I prefer a mostly hands off mod style, letting people show their asses and get smacked down by the general population, so I'm mostly just keeping an eye for anything that is out of control trolling and abuse.

I'd like input from the rest of you regarding how heavily you want stuff like that moderated, whether any lines were crossed that I didn't see, and how close to trollishness we should let people get before I ban their asses.

Also, if any other mods are lurking, speak up.


ETA: The post in question contains some triggering stuff in the comments regarding rape/Sexual assault. Keep that in mind before delving in. The fact that it is triggering is what I am trying to figure out how to mod.
 
 
18 October 2011 @ 06:06 pm
A query to the members of debunkingmale:

Can a man truly claim to be a social justice warrior if he knowingly remains friends with a rapist? Is it different if the rapist is female? Under what circumstances can this man wave the incident away by saying "It's complicated"?
 
 
The three biggest myths about women in tech the main topic is very important

but i pull out this sub-topic:
Instead of vigorous debate, we were perplexed and disheartened to see a number of comments discounting the data emerging from this report, not based on facts and evidence, but based on personal opinion and anecdotes. One common response from the mostly male responders was that these data must be incorrect and misleading because they personally have not witnessed these issues. In other words, if I haven’t seen or experienced bias, it cannot possibly exist.
why is this men?

one reason is because when it's not directed at you don't notice it. if you're a poc man, or a gay man, or disabled man, etc you notice tend to notice the disprivilege you experience, but not the privilege you have and that disprivilege women experience. if you're a man and queer, poc, disabled, etc., then you've seen the other side of that - that straight people don't see their privilege, that white people don't see their privilege, that able-bodied people do not see their privilege, etc. if you're a straight white able-bodied cisgender, etcetcetc man, then you will have the hardest time noticing anything.

it is not because it isn't happening.

the deck is stacked against women.
 
 
14 October 2011 @ 10:10 am
[trigger warning (from article): "Trigger warning for discussion of and graphic examples of threatening online harassment." ]

this is a very good article about the harassment women experience online: On being harassed: a little GF history and some current events

there are many important things in the article. the impact of on women is horrific. and yet so little is done about it. most men in the large tech world completely ignore the problem. or they just don't believe there is one.

i'm going to pick out one "little" phase:
forwarded [death threat emails] all to the feds (who, of course, did nothing with them — *sigh*).
and that's what institutionalized sexism looks like - don't count on them to do anything.

* * *

but here's the result of systemic ignoring:
By the time this happened, I’d already decided — like many women before me — to drop out of the tech industry, so it was no big deal for me to turn down a high profile speaking opportunity. In fact, I hadn’t spoken at any major conferences in a year or so, preferring small events and unconferences where I could focus on teaching people about our technology, rather than on any potential harassment.
men, more of us really need to speak up and say this shit is not ok.

* * *

on a more meta-level.

it's important for us men to learn the difference between speaking for women and supporting women.

it's not the place of men to tell women what they should be doing in these situations. this is more male privilege, and it happens a lot in response to reading these kinds of posts.

listen to what women are saying they want changed. and if you can't figure that out, listen some more.
 
 
 
12 October 2011 @ 09:38 am
[trigger warning: domestic violence & rape]

this needs a close reading.

Facing Cuts, a City Repeals Its Domestic Violence Law
By a vote of 7 to 3, the City Council repealed the local law that makes domestic violence a crime.
because
The move, the councilors were told, would force District Attorney Chad Taylor to prosecute the cases because they would remain a crime under state law, a conclusion with which he grudgingly agreed. The Council also approved negotiations to resolve the impasse.
the build up
Eighteen people have been arrested on domestic violence charges since September and released without charges because no agency is accepting new cases. That has raised concerns among advocates for victims of domestic violence, some of whom gathered Tuesday outside government buildings to express outrage over the gamesmanship.
[snark]women taking a back burner? this never happens.[/snark]

* * *

up until i was 21, whenever i saw my parents it was pretty much me witnessing my mom experiencing domestic violence at the hands of my father. it was pretty much a daily experience when i was living at home. and when i stopped living at home, i would see it whenever i when home to visit.

the thing i want to point out is this: it was "normal" to me. and it wasn't just "normal" to me, but domestic violence laws didn't really come on line until i was a teenager. it was "normal" to society, too. the "normality" was such that it never occurred to me do anything about it and no one else who saw it did anything either - family, friends, church members, co-workers, nobody.

this alone speaks to just how much power male privilege has over everyone's live. and just how well it creates a veil that hinders anyone from looking closely at it.

* * *

historically:
- raping your wife was not considered rape in the usa in most states until the 1970's.
- men beating women was not considered a crime in a "domestic" setting. beating another man's wife was a crime? this speaks to the social norm that viewed/views women as chattel.
- where women are the abusers, there are issues of disbelief around the reinforcing gender roles where women are weak and agency-less and men are strong and full of agency. gender roles that bolster male privilege.
 
 
11 October 2011 @ 08:16 pm
[trigger warning: rape & more trigger warnings on original post]

On Blogging, Threats, and Silence
‘They want you to shut up,’ I explained. ‘That’s the point of a rape threat. They want to silence you. They want you to shrink down very small inside a box where you think they can’t find you.’
men this is stuff that we don't typically experience for being men. and because of that inexperience we tend to ignore the effects. the effects are profound. it's stuff we need to speak up about when we see it.
 
 
07 October 2011 @ 06:55 pm
Ada Lovelace Day has begun!

(actually toward the end of the day. i was out most of today.)
 
 
 
04 October 2011 @ 08:21 pm
[trigger: transphobia + jail]

Occupy Wall Street: NYPD Chains Transgender Man To Jail Restroom For 8 Hours
A transgender man arrested Saturday as part of the Occupy Wall Street protest at the Brooklyn Bridge was verbally and physically humiliated by the New York Police Department (NYPD), including being inappropriately patted-​down, segregated from other arrested persons, refused repeated requests for food — despite the fact that other prisoners were fed — and chained for eight hours to the wall of a restroom in an NYC jail, according to a statement he released.
and why is there an unrelated article tacked on?